The Scriptorium

As much as I love Great War history, I don't know if I could sit through a film about that particular clusterfuck. Anybody who thinks war is a GOOD idea should be made to study Passchendaele.

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I'm not sure if it's even being released in the States. However, it's a good film to watch if you are interested in World War I. I think it's one of the most realistic films about war that I've ever seen and, yet, I didn't find it grim and depressing. I definitely agree with you that anyone who thinks war is a good idea should study Passchendaele.

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It looks fascinating. And yeah, we probably won't get it here in the States because Americans tend to forget that WW1 even happened. We entered into the conflict so late that we never saw the devastating casualties of folks like y'all who were there from the start. Hell, most Americans don't even know what the poppies we buy on Veteran's Day symbolize. In fact, the practice of selling or wearing poppies on Veteran's Day has all but died out in this country, as has the knowledge that 11 November began as Remembrance/Armistice Day.

It's always made me wonder what the US would be like if we *had* suffered the kind of losses the rest of y'all did during the Great War. Would we have the same militant, might-makes-right attitude as today? Or would we be more cautious?

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radiogaga80.livejournal.com

It's always made me wonder what the US would be like if we *had* suffered the kind of losses the rest of y'all did during the Great War. Would we have the same militant, might-makes-right attitude as today? Or would we be more cautious?

Good question - I've wondered that myself more than once. Although we didn't learn much from WW1 or else there wouldn't have been WW2. In fact, if US president Wilson had had his way with his League of Nations, and if the British and French politicians hadn't been so eager to punish Germany as hard as possible (Wilson was against this), it would have been interesting to find out what would've happened instead in Europe.

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The aftermath of WW1 always reminds me of the kind of trouble the US avoided after our Civil War. There were a lot of folks in the Union who wanted the South punished, and punished hard. But Lincoln was smart, and called for a "gentle peace." If he hadn't, the US likely would have faced a second, bloodier Civil War.

And that was the mistake that France and Britain made after the Armistice. By punishing Germany as harshly as they did, they doomed the Weimar Republic to failure and created the conditions that allowed Hitler and the Nazis to rise to power.

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Well, it shows you how much I know. I just assumed that Americans didn't sell or wear poppies. I assumed it was mostly the practice of European and Commonwealth countries.

You bring up a very interesting question about what kind of effect WWI might have had on the US if they had suffered the same kind of losses as other countries. It's possible the US might be more cautious, but it's also possible that it would be even more militant. I mean, look at the reaction to 9/11. Another country might (and I say might) have ended any kind of military operations overseas. However, if anything, I think 9/11 caused the opposite to happen.

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No, we used to wear poppies, but the practice has all but disappeared. I can remember as a teenager pleasing an old veteran enormously by both buying a poppy from him on Veteran's Day, and reciting the opening lines of "In Flanders Fields" to show that I understood its significance.

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It's a shame that the practice of wearing poppies has all but disappeared in the US, especially as it does seem to please veterans. I love your anecdote about how happy you made that veteran by buying a poppy and reciting the opening lines of "In Flanders Fields". I'm sure it meant a lot to him that you did understand the poppy's significance.

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crew4.livejournal.com

This sounds really bad, but we never really hear anything about Canada in the wars. I know, as a fellow Commonwealth you would think we hear more. Mainly we hear about America (of course),England, Aussie and us.

Looks like a good movie. Might go and check it out........with a box of tissues :-)

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No, not much is usually said about Canada in the wars. Hell, we don't even hear all that much in Canada itself. In fact, I knew hardly anything about Passchendaele and the terrible cost involved. Usually, we hear about Vimy Ridge and Ypres. Apparently, the horrors of Passchendaele were played down because they were afraid it would have an adverse effect on recruitment.

I hope the movie will be available outside of Canada, even if it's only on DVD. As I was saying to

windrose, it's not as grim and depressing as I thought it might be, though I do recommend a box of tissues. ;-)

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There's still a lot of disagreement over Passchendaele to this day, which is why you don't tend to hear much about it. The Brits especially don't like talking about it, and resisted admitting any culpability in the matter for years.

Case in point would be the mystery novel THE WOOD BEYOND by Reginald Hill. A good portion of the book deals with the lead character discovering what happened to his grandfather during the Battle of Passchendaele. However, when the BBC adapted it to screen, they cut all mention of Passchendaele out entirely and changed the WW1 subplot to something less controversial.

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I can see why Passchendaele would be a controversal subject -- and not just for the British. Canada has played a role in trying to hush it up too. I think it began as an effort not to frighten off potential recruits. I'm sure the reasons after that were even more varied and complex.

It's interesting that the BBC chose to cut all mention of Passchendaele from their adaptation of The Wood Beyond. I guess even now it's something people feel touchy about.

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Oh, and it's kinda hard to ignore the Canadians in that particular battle, as they're the ones who finally managed to take the town after everyone else failed miserably. It was a bloody, Pyrrhic victory, mind. But they still kicked major ass. :)

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crew4.livejournal.com

The Brits tend to bury their heads in the sand when you meantion any war really. They stuffed up so bad so many times, it's kind of embarrassing for them. They sent men in places and ordered them to do things that you wouldn't order a dog to do. Those in charge never gave a shit about the soldiers.
Over here the poppies are well known, and for the right reasons. We have what we call ANZAC day. It 'celebrates' New Zealand and Australian soldiers that fought in all the wars, even Vietnam. But mainly it's about WW1. I've never liked calling it the Great War, never made sense to me. We make sure our children know what happened, they need to know and be proud that the men of this little country fought for our freedom. We have incredible respect for our soldiers!

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It was funny in the theatre last night because there were two boys sitting in the row in front of me who got in the habit of punching the air and saying, "Yay, Canada!" during certain points in the film. However, the one kid obviously has to work on his reading and comprehension skills because he said, "Yay, Canada!" after a line came up on the screen saying that the enemy front took Passchendaele back the following year. I was tempted to point out that this was not a "Yay, Canada!" moment as all those men essentially sacrificed their lives for nothing. I mean, it was definitely heroic, and a big victory at the time, but what did it accomplish in the end?

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I mean, it was definitely heroic, and a big victory at the time, but what did it accomplish in the end?

Absolutely nothing. That's the real tragedy of Passchendaele: all that suffering, all those lives lost for nothing at all.

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radiogaga80.livejournal.com

I had to read up on this battle and it breaks your heart to see how many men died during this one battle alone, just to gain 8 km of ground. The most shocking line was at the end of the article though, "All ground was quickly lost again in April 1918 during the fourth battle of Ypre."

The dutch aren't too focussed on WW1 because we stayed neutral (so I doubt the film will be released here) but the war was a subject when I was in my final year in high school. It's actually baffling that we shoved it under the carpet because the war had such a big impact on Europe's history.

Had to read "All quiet on the Western front" by E.M. Remarque and that was graphic enough for me that I pretty much stayed away from WW1 movies.

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Yes, the sheer brutality and carnage is absolutely horrifying. And, as you say, all that ground was lost the following year.

While Passchendaele doesn't flinch from any of the graphic elements of war, it wasn't nearly as grim or depressing as I thought it would be. In fact, most of the film is set on the homefront in Alberta. You don't see any of the trench warfare until the end, which is a relief because I thought the whole film might be set in that environment. I would say that I definitely found All Quiet on the Western Front more disturbing and difficult to deal with.

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Looks interesting.
I've yet to see The Trench, staring Daniel Craig...

I seem to remember that the mentioned Daziel and Pascoe episode actually dealt a lot with WW I ? That Pascoe's great grandfather didn't die of the injuries he received in the war, but died due to some drugs/experimentations done to him?

Must dash, otherwise I think the kids'll do eachother in...

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Hmm...I've heard about The Trench, but I haven't seen it. I'm sure Daniel Craig would look pretty good in uniform... *Stares off into space*

I have to admit that I haven't seen much of Daziel and Pascoe, which is pretty strange considering that I'm a mystery buff. It would be interesting to find out if there was a WWI connection in one of the books and/or episodes.

I hope the kids managed to refrain from re-enacting their own scene from a war! Tell them their long lost Canadian aunt won't allow it. *g*

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This is the Daziel and Pascoe episode that deals with WWI:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208886/

(I remember because I like the actor who plays Pascoes relative ;)

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Thanks for the additional info! I'll definitely make an effort to check out Daziel and Pascoe next time it's being broadcast. :-)

Which actor do you like in this particular episode? Shaun Dooley?

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Yes, Shaun Dooley! :)

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Yeah, somehow I'm not surprised. *g*

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No? *blushes*

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jackycomelately.livejournal.com

You watch movies such as Passchendaele, and I'm currently viewing the last season of Justice League Unlimited. It rocks by the way! However, it might, just might mind you, lack the depth of Passchendaele.

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